U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?

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RadioFreeJack

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U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« on: April 23, 2024, 08:22:19 AM »
The parallels in the histories of these two bands always makes for interesting conversation. And as I find usually true, there are certainly a number of big dual R.E.M./U2 fans here. Maybe it's that I've been listening to a lot of R.E.M. lately, and lately, I've been wondering: which respective member of each band is the more talented? I.e., is Larry a better drummer than Bill? We aren't comparing discographies, not picking the best-looking, etc.

So to start this thread off with some positivity in case I've just made hell break loose, here's a great performance we've probably all seen at least once, of two great bands, arguably at their peaks, performing a song I'll never tire of:


No, Stipe doesn't do the song justice like Bono ever has, but that's because One is U2's song. And lyrically, it's a very strong track as well. But Stipe has experimented with abstract lyricism from the start with Murmur, nailed a unique, unapologetically twangy vocal style by the time of Fables, formed another style by the turn of the decade, and, like Bono, improved remarkably as a proper singer. Here, I'm not sure many would argue that Stipe's baritone, while terrific in its own right, beats Bono's anything. You have R.E.M.'s singer with lower lyrical doldrums and often superior highs, and you have U2's singer with a purely better voice, period. I'll take Bono here.

Edge is known for his simple playing style and experimentation with effects, delays in the '80s and distortions in the '90s. Meanwhile, Peter Buck is a phenomenal guitar player whose jangly approach was perhaps only bested by Johnny Marr. This depends on how you weigh effects know-how with technique. Inclining myself with technique being of larger importance in this discussion, I'm picking Peter Buck.

Mike Mills is a multi-talented artist, far more than any band's bassist. His harmonies from R.E.M.'s early work was expertly woven into those songs' choruses. A multi-instrumentalist too, I can't see Adam coming close to this man's talent.

I know little about percussion. Larry vs. Bill may be a coinflip for me. I suppose as a matter of preference that Larry's unconventional playing undoubtedly catches my ear as something special, and Bill never much overcomplicated things—though that's not to his detriment; by the rhythms of a song like How the West Was Won..., before Bill's departure from R.E.M., he was unbelievably tight on the kit. I'm choosing Bill Berry.

As a whole, I think most of us would agree that R.E.M. is the more skilled of the two. But on an individual basis, what do you guys think?
Jack

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laoghaire

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2024, 09:39:58 AM »
Nice writeup.

I understand Mike Mills is quite a talent, far beyond simply hitting his notes. I think he is credited with a lot, maybe the bulk of, the songwriting in structure. There is obviously no comparison with Adam.

To me, REM kicks U2’s ass for songwriting overall. And musicianship.

I enjoy Stipe’s quirky lyrics a lot, and his voice is both lovely and tremendous. But I prefer Bono’s heartfelt lyrics and his less controlled yet more tremendous voice in the good days.

Peter Buck is clearly more skilled but I do credit Edge’s distinctive sound, so I’ll just let them go unranked. They are both the best guitar players for their respective bands.
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WalkOn2000

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2024, 11:22:18 AM »
No debate U2. R.E.M. they're just another boring American alternative rock with a lifeless lead singer with a squeaky voice.

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Tumbling Dice

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2024, 11:30:10 AM »
My top 75 R.E.M songs (Warner Bros. Years)

Country Feedback
Nightswimming
Man on the Moon
Drive
Imitation of Life
Find the River
It Happened Today
So Fast, So Numb
Try Not to Breathe
Leaving New York
Low Desert
Losing My Religion
E-Bow the Letter
Radio Song
Strange Currencies
I’ll Take the Rain
What’s the Frequency, Kenneth
Uberlin
At My Most Beautiful
Shiny Happy People
Electrolite
Orange Crush
Me in Honey
World Leader Pretend
Half a World Away
Daysleeper
How the West Was Won and Where It Got Us
Get Up
Supernatural Superserious
Mine Smell Like Honey
Sweetness Follows
Leave
The Sidewinder Sleeps Tonite
Crush With Eyeliner
All the Way to Reno
Lotus
Bad Day
Departure
Oh My Heart
Be Mine
Let Me In
Living Well Is the Best Revenge
Circus Envy
Walk It Back
New Test Leper
Chorus and the Ring
Bang and Blame
Aftermath
Ignoreland
Bittersweet Me
Blue
I Remember California
Low
She Just Wants to Be
Pop Song 89
Tongue
Texarkana
Until the Day Is Done
The Lifting
I Wanted to Be Wrong
Star 69
Everybody Hurts
Suspicion
Near Wild Heaven
Aligator_Aviator_Autopilot_Antimatter
Monty Got a Raw Deal
Stand
Star Me Kitten
Undertow
The Great Beyond
Turn You Inside-Out
Beachball
Man-Sized Wreath
The Outsiders
The Wrong Child

The future is bright at Everton FC  8)

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imaginary friend

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2024, 11:31:43 AM »
REM had the better rhythm section, U2 the better vocalist and guitarist.
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The Exile

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2024, 03:22:22 PM »
To answer a slightly different question than was asked, the fact that Thom Yorke and Kurt Cobain had MASSIVE respect for R.E.M. speaks volumes. Real recognizes real.
Listen as Hope and Peace try to rhyme,
Listen over marching bands playing out their time.

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walktothewater

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2024, 08:02:43 PM »
Excepting the third, my choices are almost the reverse of the OP's

Stipe over Bono
Mullen over Berry
Mills over Clayton
Edge draws with Buck

So REM win 2.5 to 1.5


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Soloyan

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U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2024, 03:06:51 AM »
That’s an interesting thread with thoughtful posts…

I’m always triggered by such questions because when it comes down to « musicianship » most people always assume U2 are very weak.

Musicianship, skills, talent… are all very subjective notions. So, when we discuss them it says more about us and what we value than it says about the people we discuss, I believe.

That being said, I myself prefer to rate artists and musicians in terms of creativity. How much they do/did their own thing and what they bring/brought to the table in the grand scheme of things.

To me, art is a cascade going from cave men to now. All artists stand under the influence of what was done before them, contribute and have younger folks being influenced by them. Teardrops in the rain.

So… to answer the question, I think both bands managed to build their own sound and bring something valuable, but we all know that, here. The difference is probably that U2 are quite the shapeshifters when REM developed what sounds to my ears as a very repetitive formula.

If I got to compare individually :

Vocals / lyrics : I’ll take Bono over MS any day. A way broader range/contrast. I cannot for the life of me quote an MS line that means a lot to me. I can quote dozens of Bono’s. MS has a real vocal signature, instantly recognizable, though.

Guitars : Edge started by developing his own sound and method, then expanded his palette. He’s unparalleled in that sense. No one ever did that. Not before, not since. Peter Buck has a signature but it’s way thinner. But PB comes down from a line of US guitarists such as Neil Young so he’s more easy to get into and « traditionalist ».

Bass : Adam is way more skilled than most give him credit for. An awful lot of U2 songs have strong bass hooks. That said, MM is a broader musician, not just a bass player. He also has a more subtle approach, sometimes using just one note to make his bass line go from good to exceptional. I’m thinking Losing my Religion, for instance.

Drums : sorry but REM’s drums are, again, on the traditionalist side. To me they don’t bring anything new to the table, even sometimes dragging the band down. A real weakness.
Larry’s sound, again often underestimated, was highlighted by Bram’s recent stunt as U2’s drummer. It sounds like Larry, but isn’t quite like him. Larry has a strong touch that allows flow. Bram hits things but doesn’t have half the flow.
Let’s put it this way : if you place any drummer in REM you have the same band. If you place any other drummer in U2, it’s a different band, in terms of creative process. Bram did ok because the drum patterns were already written. Had he been in the studio to contribute for Achtung Baby, for example, the result would have been, very, very different.

So… my take is that REM gets more recognition because they’re in the line of US bands and songwriters, with just enough character to stand out. U2 made their way from the gutter of « musicianship » which was once their strongest asset. They explored uncharted territory because they were not taught. And it’s interesting to note that the further they got from that approach, and the closer they got to REM’s traditionalist approach, the least interesting they became. And that’s due, in good part, to the fact that artists like REM get more recognition. U2 are jealous of that.

So… it’s not too far fetched to say that, the more we underestimate U2’s original approach and the more we embrace the traditionalist approach, the least interesting U2 get. We contribute to make them less interesting.

Know your strengths.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2024, 04:33:50 AM by Soloyan »
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MPare1966

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2024, 06:38:51 AM »
Soloyan: « That’s an interesting thread with thoughtful posts… Now hold my beer »

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Soloyan

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2024, 03:12:13 PM »
Soloyan: « That’s an interesting thread with thoughtful posts… Now hold my beer »

 :D
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So Cruel

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2024, 08:09:20 PM »
REM are better musicians, but U2 is a better band. REM were never great at ‘rock’ songs. They wrote some great introspective beautiful songs like Find the River and others, but they weren’t as diversified as U2, who could move from hard rock to experimental to post punk to anthems to ballads……
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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2024, 10:18:58 PM »
We get too distracted by our own negativity sometimes and forget.

Would anyone take Michael stripe over Bono as U2 frontman?
Would anyone take Buck over Edge?
Would anyone take Automatic over Achtung? Out of time over Joshua Tree?

We are like Babe Ruth fans here. His swing is all wrong. He’s fat. Too many strikeouts. Blah blah blah. We are all here on a u2 fan site seven years after their last commercial release. That speaks volumes.


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RadioFreeJack

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2024, 03:48:03 PM »
REM are better musicians, but U2 is a better band. REM were never great at ‘rock’ songs. They wrote some great introspective beautiful songs like Find the River and others, but they weren’t as diversified as U2, who could move from hard rock to experimental to post punk to anthems to ballads……

This is a fair, good point. Though I did think Up was a successful record for R.E.M., its only real foray into sonic experimentation. Plus, Accelerate is a pretty solid rock album, in my opinion.
Jack

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RadioFreeJack

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2024, 03:49:01 PM »
Nice writeup.

I understand Mike Mills is quite a talent, far beyond simply hitting his notes. I think he is credited with a lot, maybe the bulk of, the songwriting in structure. There is obviously no comparison with Adam.

To me, REM kicks U2’s ass for songwriting overall. And musicianship.

I enjoy Stipe’s quirky lyrics a lot, and his voice is both lovely and tremendous. But I prefer Bono’s heartfelt lyrics and his less controlled yet more tremendous voice in the good days.

Peter Buck is clearly more skilled but I do credit Edge’s distinctive sound, so I’ll just let them go unranked. They are both the best guitar players for their respective bands.

I'll take your opinion as mine. Well put!
Jack

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RadioFreeJack

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Re: U2 and R.E.M.: which is the more talented band?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2024, 03:52:00 PM »
My top 75 R.E.M songs (Warner Bros. Years)

Country Feedback
Nightswimming
Man on the Moon
Drive
Imitation of Life
Find the River
It Happened Today
So Fast, So Numb
Try Not to Breathe
Leaving New York
Low Desert
Losing My Religion
E-Bow the Letter
Radio Song
Strange Currencies
I’ll Take the Rain
What’s the Frequency, Kenneth
Uberlin
At My Most Beautiful
Shiny Happy People
Electrolite
Orange Crush
Me in Honey
World Leader Pretend
Half a World Away
Daysleeper
How the West Was Won and Where It Got Us
Get Up
Supernatural Superserious
Mine Smell Like Honey
Sweetness Follows
Leave
The Sidewinder Sleeps Tonite
Crush With Eyeliner
All the Way to Reno
Lotus
Bad Day
Departure
Oh My Heart
Be Mine
Let Me In
Living Well Is the Best Revenge
Circus Envy
Walk It Back
New Test Leper
Chorus and the Ring
Bang and Blame
Aftermath
Ignoreland
Bittersweet Me
Blue
I Remember California
Low
She Just Wants to Be
Pop Song 89
Tongue
Texarkana
Until the Day Is Done
The Lifting
I Wanted to Be Wrong
Star 69
Everybody Hurts
Suspicion
Near Wild Heaven
Aligator_Aviator_Autopilot_Antimatter
Monty Got a Raw Deal
Stand
Star Me Kitten
Undertow
The Great Beyond
Turn You Inside-Out
Beachball
Man-Sized Wreath
The Outsiders
The Wrong Child

You've got a solid top ten, no real curveballs here, but I do you'd put some more respect on Monster.

Why exclude pre-Warner stuff? Not to your taste?

Jack