Steve Averill podcast and TUF cover controversy

So Steve Averill’s son is talking with his dad about his work with U2 on a podcast called U2 Y.

I’ve listened to the first 5 shows and found them enjoyable although not earth shattering.

That said, I didn’t know about TUF cover controversy. According to Steve, the band got a few offers for cover designs from the record company. They called him because they didn’t like any. It was late in the process, like august of 1984 or something.

Steve called a photographer called Simon Marsden who used infra red for black and white pictures. Je published a book called « In Ruins » and this is the cover picture. Ring a bell ?



Marsden said he wasn’t interested in the gig but allowed Averill to use the infra red technique which is what Anton Corbijn did… with the results we know.



By the way I had always found that picture weird but couldn’t say why. I’m happy to know it’s because of the infra red.

Anyway, Averill’s story is that they were so late in the project that he forgot to add Marsden in the credits which lead Marsden to sue U2 and Corbijn. Apparently they reached an agreement.

Sued because they forgot to add him to the credits even though he gave them permission to use the technique?  Sounds lame to me.

The cover is Top 5 though (as is the album)

Sued because they forgot to add him to the credits even though he gave them permission to use the technique?  Sounds lame to me.

The cover is Top 5 though (as is the album)

In his defense he probably didn’t imagine they’d take the exact same shot from the exact same angle with the exact same technique.
Plus, a credit was probably all he asked for to begin with.
I think forgetting to credit him his more lame than him suing. I mean they owe him that record cover.

10/10 post. Very interesting.

Quote from: Phoenix Rising on May 18, 2023, 05:32:32 PM

Sued because they forgot to add him to the credits even though he gave them permission to use the technique?  Sounds lame to me.

The cover is Top 5 though (as is the album)

In his defense he probably didn’t imagine they’d take the exact same shot from the exact same angle with the exact same technique.
Plus, a credit was probably all he asked for to begin with.
I think forgetting to credit him his more lame than him suing. I mean they owe him that record cover.

Its not really the exact same shot though is it,  the clouds are different,  the band is in the album shot,  etc.

Quote from: Soloyan on May 18, 2023, 05:58:17 PM

Quote from: Phoenix Rising on May 18, 2023, 05:32:32 PM

Sued because they forgot to add him to the credits even though he gave them permission to use the technique?  Sounds lame to me.

The cover is Top 5 though (as is the album)

In his defense he probably didn’t imagine they’d take the exact same shot from the exact same angle with the exact same technique.
Plus, a credit was probably all he asked for to begin with.
I think forgetting to credit him his more lame than him suing. I mean they owe him that record cover.

Its not really the exact same shot though is it,  the clouds are different,  the band is in the album shot,  etc.

It’s the exact same shot : same angle, same optics, same technique, etc… but taken at a different time with 2 guys and a table.

Thing is : if the original shot didn’t exist, this one likely wouldn’t.

Quote from: Phoenix Rising on May 19, 2023, 11:26:54 AM

Quote from: Soloyan on May 18, 2023, 05:58:17 PM

Quote from: Phoenix Rising on May 18, 2023, 05:32:32 PM

Sued because they forgot to add him to the credits even though he gave them permission to use the technique?  Sounds lame to me.

The cover is Top 5 though (as is the album)

In his defense he probably didn’t imagine they’d take the exact same shot from the exact same angle with the exact same technique.
Plus, a credit was probably all he asked for to begin with.
I think forgetting to credit him his more lame than him suing. I mean they owe him that record cover.

Its not really the exact same shot though is it,  the clouds are different,  the band is in the album shot,  etc.

It’s the exact same shot : same angle, same optics, same technique, etc… but taken at a different time with 2 guys and a table.

Thing is : if the original shot didn’t exist, this one likely wouldn’t.

I get that,  but i just don't see why they would sue,  they don't own someone elses photography.  I would agree that u2 should have credited them on the album.  Would they had bothered to sue if u2 wasn't a world famous band?

Quote from: Soloyan on May 19, 2023, 03:38:40 PM

Quote from: Phoenix Rising on May 19, 2023, 11:26:54 AM

Quote from: Soloyan on May 18, 2023, 05:58:17 PM

Quote from: Phoenix Rising on May 18, 2023, 05:32:32 PM

Sued because they forgot to add him to the credits even though he gave them permission to use the technique?  Sounds lame to me.

The cover is Top 5 though (as is the album)

In his defense he probably didn’t imagine they’d take the exact same shot from the exact same angle with the exact same technique.
Plus, a credit was probably all he asked for to begin with.
I think forgetting to credit him his more lame than him suing. I mean they owe him that record cover.

Its not really the exact same shot though is it,  the clouds are different,  the band is in the album shot,  etc.

It’s the exact same shot : same angle, same optics, same technique, etc… but taken at a different time with 2 guys and a table.

Thing is : if the original shot didn’t exist, this one likely wouldn’t.

I get that,  but i just don't see why they would sue,  they don't own someone elses photography.  I would agree that u2 should have credited them on the album.  Would they had bothered to sue if u2 wasn't a world famous band?

Of course not. What would be the point of suing someone with no money?

Quote from: Soloyan on May 19, 2023, 03:38:40 PM

Quote from: Phoenix Rising on May 19, 2023, 11:26:54 AM

Quote from: Soloyan on May 18, 2023, 05:58:17 PM

Quote from: Phoenix Rising on May 18, 2023, 05:32:32 PM

Sued because they forgot to add him to the credits even though he gave them permission to use the technique?  Sounds lame to me.

The cover is Top 5 though (as is the album)

In his defense he probably didn’t imagine they’d take the exact same shot from the exact same angle with the exact same technique.
Plus, a credit was probably all he asked for to begin with.
I think forgetting to credit him his more lame than him suing. I mean they owe him that record cover.

Its not really the exact same shot though is it,  the clouds are different,  the band is in the album shot,  etc.

It’s the exact same shot : same angle, same optics, same technique, etc… but taken at a different time with 2 guys and a table.

Thing is : if the original shot didn’t exist, this one likely wouldn’t.

I get that,  but i just don't see why they would sue,  they don't own someone elses photography.  I would agree that u2 should have credited them on the album.  Would they had bothered to sue if u2 wasn't a world famous band?

Maybe because that’s the only way to get a credit that was due but never given ?

Anyway damage is done. Who among us knew about this ? Credit got lost like tears in the rain.

Time to d… er, sorry. Wrong crowd.

What’s interesting is that the estate of Andy Warhol just lost a U.S. Supreme Court case over the issue of the late artist’s use of a picture of Prince that he used to create an ‘original’ work of art.  It’s a ‘fair use’ issue.  The case was decided 7-2 iirc, and what’s also interesting is the differing opinions from 2 members of the court who happen to be very politically aligned (leaning left) as well as good friends (Elena Kagan and Sonya Sotomayor).

Last episode was epic. Steve’s son went through his father’s old tapes and found a bootleg for THAT 1978 show where Bono, Adam, Larry, Edge and Dik Evans played as The Hype then dropped Dik and played their first gig as U2.
What’s funny is that he has the Hype set, then Bono explaining to the crowd that Dik is leaving and… nothing. it''s the end of the tape. No trace of the first U2 set.

Last episode was epic. Steve’s son went through his father’s old tapes and found a bootleg for THAT 1978 show where Bono, Adam, Larry, Edge and Dik Evans played as The Hype then dropped Dik and played their first gig as U2.
What’s funny is that he has the Hype set, then Bono explaining to the crowd that Dik is leaving and… nothing. it''s the end of the tape. No trace of the first U2 set.

Did he play the Hype's last set on the episode? What was their setlist? I believe the date is March 20, 1978.

Is the story on Dik that they made Larry tell him and Dik punched Larry in the stomach?

Quote from: Soloyan on May 25, 2023, 07:26:43 PM

Last episode was epic. Steve’s son went through his father’s old tapes and found a bootleg for THAT 1978 show where Bono, Adam, Larry, Edge and Dik Evans played as The Hype then dropped Dik and played their first gig as U2.
What’s funny is that he has the Hype set, then Bono explaining to the crowd that Dik is leaving and… nothing. it''s the end of the tape. No trace of the first U2 set.

Did he play the Hype's last set on the episode? What was their setlist? I believe the date is March 20, 1978.

He played just a few seconds of the last song and Bono’s speech. Sound is very bad and very chaotic (guitar tuning up, drums, screams).
Apparently The Hype’s set was mostly covers. He names 2-3 songs but I don’t remember them.

Is the story on Dik that they made Larry tell him and Dik punched Larry in the stomach?

Yes, I believe that is the story. Funny how they got the "kid" to give the bad news. It's weird because Dik is supposed to be the smartest one of the group but apparently the chemistry wasn't there with him.