What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?

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financeguy1

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What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« on: February 15, 2021, 04:59:21 AM »
Not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely curious. Perhaps posters with a better technical knowledge than I could comment?

Reason I ask is that it was the only U2 track produced by Martin Hannett. He was slated to produce the Boy album but then Ian Curtis died and he wasn't up to it. Although he lived another eleven years he never worked with U2 again and is generally believed to have been gradually consumed by his addictions.  He was a legendary figure in the Manchester music scene in the 1970s and 1980s. He is depicted in the film "24 Hour Party People". He was played by Andy Serkis.

https://www.mancunianmatters.co.uk/life/12032014-martin-hannett-musical-visionary-pain-in-the-arse-the-story-of-the-creator-of-the-manchester-sound/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Hour_Party_People#Cast

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Larry Lovebucket

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2021, 05:05:34 AM »
I think 11 o’clock, like party girl were influenced by the most excellent virgin prunes. There is theatrical playfulness in those 2 tunes that wasn’t present on Boy.

Hannett was a superb producer. Much more experimental than Lillywhite etc. I’d much rather Hannett had produced Boy. He took Joy Division from being a post punk band with promise and elevated them to legendary status. Could have done the same with U2. Instead Boy became rather prosaic.

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Soloyan

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2021, 11:36:56 AM »
Not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely curious. Perhaps posters with a better technical knowledge than I could comment?

Reason I ask is that it was the only U2 track produced by Martin Hannett. He was slated to produce the Boy album but then Ian Curtis died and he wasn't up to it. Although he lived another eleven years he never worked with U2 again and is generally believed to have been gradually consumed by his addictions.  He was a legendary figure in the Manchester music scene in the 1970s and 1980s. He is depicted in the film "24 Hour Party People". He was played by Andy Serkis.

https://www.mancunianmatters.co.uk/life/12032014-martin-hannett-musical-visionary-pain-in-the-arse-the-story-of-the-creator-of-the-manchester-sound/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Hour_Party_People#Cast
Maybe the real question is « what distinguishes Martin Hannett from Steve Lillywhite » ?

IMO it’s the same difference between any Joy Division track and any track from « Sparkle in the rain » from Simple Minds.

I’d describe MH’s sound as dark and claustrophobic, as if it was recorded in the subway. Vocals are mostly low in the mix.
SL is in your face : a BIG drum sound, vocals are front and center. Pumped on oxygen.

That’s why I think SL was the better choice : it fits U2’s and especially Bono’s ambition from the start.
A dangerous idea that almost makes sense...

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Larry Lovebucket

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2021, 11:49:47 AM »
Not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely curious. Perhaps posters with a better technical knowledge than I could comment?

Reason I ask is that it was the only U2 track produced by Martin Hannett. He was slated to produce the Boy album but then Ian Curtis died and he wasn't up to it. Although he lived another eleven years he never worked with U2 again and is generally believed to have been gradually consumed by his addictions.  He was a legendary figure in the Manchester music scene in the 1970s and 1980s. He is depicted in the film "24 Hour Party People". He was played by Andy Serkis.

https://www.mancunianmatters.co.uk/life/12032014-martin-hannett-musical-visionary-pain-in-the-arse-the-story-of-the-creator-of-the-manchester-sound/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Hour_Party_People#Cast
Maybe the real question is « what distinguishes Martin Hannett from Steve Lillywhite » ?

IMO it’s the same difference between any Joy Division track and any track from « Sparkle in the rain » from Simple Minds.

I’d describe MH’s sound as dark and claustrophobic, as if it was recorded in the subway. Vocals are mostly low in the mix.
SL is in your face : a BIG drum sound, vocals are front and center. Pumped on oxygen.

That’s why I think SL was the better choice : it fits U2’s and especially Bono’s ambition from the start.

I’m not sure I agree with this. IC’s vocal was front and centre in Joy Division’s work. Drums too. Unknown Pleasures was as in your face as Boy. Although it was a far superior record.

I just think Hannett was a better producer. And could probably have got u2 to their sweet spot quicker ie from TUF to POP.

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WookieeWarrior

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2021, 08:53:24 PM »
I think Lillywhite was the better choice. Hannett would have turned U2 into something it never could be.

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Larry Lovebucket

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2021, 03:12:04 AM »
I think Lillywhite was the better choice. Hannett would have turned U2 into something it never could be.

You mean a band the realised their true potential early and didn’t spend the last 20 years releasing utter shite?

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WookieeWarrior

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2021, 03:00:03 PM »
I think Lillywhite was the better choice. Hannett would have turned U2 into something it never could be.

You mean a band the realised their true potential early and didn’t spend the last 20 years releasing utter shite?

I think Boy was great for straddling new wave and post-punk in a unique. Had U2 gone for a darker sound, I'm not sure the results would have worked. Boy is such a whimsical effort—maybe dark in places but sparingly—I can only imagine U2 would've faded into obscurity if it had a Hannett sound.

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Larry Lovebucket

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2021, 03:04:15 PM »
I think Lillywhite was the better choice. Hannett would have turned U2 into something it never could be.

You mean a band the realised their true potential early and didn’t spend the last 20 years releasing utter shite?

I think Boy was great for straddling new wave and post-punk in a unique. Had U2 gone for a darker sound, I'm not sure the results would have worked. Boy is such a whimsical effort—maybe dark in places but sparingly—I can only imagine U2 would've faded into obscurity if it had a Hannett sound.

Fair points. I am not sure I agree though. Hannett didn’t make 11 o’clock sound dark. I think the first 3 records would have been sonically much more interesting with him at the helm. As it is they’re good records for sure but I’d stop at calling them particularly interesting musically.

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Shank Asu

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2021, 03:09:14 PM »
I think Lillywhite was the better choice. Hannett would have turned U2 into something it never could be.

You mean a band the realised their true potential early and didn’t spend the last 20 years releasing utter shite?

I think Boy was great for straddling new wave and post-punk in a unique. Had U2 gone for a darker sound, I'm not sure the results would have worked. Boy is such a whimsical effort—maybe dark in places but sparingly—I can only imagine U2 would've faded into obscurity if it had a Hannett sound.

Fair points. I am not sure I agree though. Hannett didn’t make 11 o’clock sound dark. I think the first 3 records would have been sonically much more interesting with him at the helm. As it is they’re good records for sure but I’d stop at calling them particularly interesting musically.
I think this raises other questions about the level of control and influence producers have on the artists.  In the end isn't it still the band controlling their own destinies?

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laoghaire

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2021, 03:21:15 PM »
I think Hannett didn't have the patience for baby U2. Lillywhite gave them what they needed to get to the next stage.

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riffraff

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2021, 03:27:36 PM »
I think Hannett didn't have the patience for baby U2. Lillywhite gave them what they needed to get to the next stage.
Like a mama duck.
You speak of signs and wonders, but I need something other

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laoghaire

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2021, 03:40:53 PM »
Yes, riffraff. A mama duck was exactly how I was envisioning Lillywhite.

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riffraff

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2021, 03:50:36 PM »
Quack quack waddle waddle.
You speak of signs and wonders, but I need something other

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Soloyan

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2021, 10:31:13 AM »
I think Hannett didn't have the patience for baby U2. Lillywhite gave them what they needed to get to the next stage.
Like a mama duck.
I wish I could have told him that.
A dangerous idea that almost makes sense...

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Larry Lovebucket

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Re: What distinguishes 11 O'Clock Tick Tock from any other U2 track?
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2021, 10:52:57 AM »
I think Hannett didn't have the patience for baby U2. Lillywhite gave them what they needed to get to the next stage.

This is probably true. Hannett was very much the 5th member when it came to Unknown Pleasures. Joy Division sounded quite different before he got hold of their songs.