When it is over.....

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When it is over.....
« on: July 16, 2020, 09:44:25 PM »
When u2 decide to call it quits do you think they will look back on this period now and then distance themselves from it, like for example they did with Pop?

I can see maybe a 75/80 year old Bono or more likely Larry after they have been finished for a few years looking back and maybe admitting they 'carried on for a bit too long' .....'found it too hard to stop even though they knew they should have'.....looking back on this period and feeling embarrassed by songs like 'The Best Thing'

Looking back at things like that performance of Dirty Day (that has been posted in another thread here) and cringing at how bad it was......regretting working with clowns like Ryan Tedder in some desperate attempt at relevance.

Admitting that they couldn't let go and call it a day because they were hooked on the money/the fame?

Maybe evem admitting that their hearts were no longer really in it, but contracts and the business of u2 meant they kept going?

Maybe comparing themselves to bands like REM who went out whilst still had their dignity and wishing had done same?

We've seen u2 distance themselves from their work before - could it happen here on a bigger scale once they are done - a lot of the truth tends to come out once things are done.


What do you reckon? Maybe they are now and will be in years to come genuinely proud of this period, and genuinely think it stands up, had been well received and was the right direction for them......

Maybe they'll even still be going in a similar direction in 15 years time and to a whole generation (well those who noticed anyway) this period will be what u2 are best known for?

Maybe even when it is done 'brand u2' would never allow them to

Maybe once done they'll shy away from interviews etc and hold a dignified silence leaving behind the body of work and no recriminations/regrets etc.

Thoughts?


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MPare1966

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2020, 09:56:22 PM »
There’s only one correct answer above. And you know which one it is.


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The Edges Cat

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2020, 11:27:21 PM »
Yeah it's obvious which way it will go.

Not every performance is like the I+E Dirty Day, they can still get it right most songs. But when they get it wrong, it sticks out like dog's balls now.
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Soloyan

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2020, 02:04:00 AM »
Interesting.... it’s also possible, once they stop being a band, that they stop thinking alike. Larry bashing the last 2 decades, Bono embracing them.
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SwimmingSorrows

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2020, 01:18:15 PM »
Admitting that they couldn't let go and call it a day because they were hooked on the money/the fame?

Maybe evem admitting that their hearts were no longer really in it, but contracts and the business of u2 meant they kept going?

Maybe comparing themselves to bands like REM who went out whilst still had their dignity and wishing had done same?

I don't think they're just in it for the money/fame.  For all its faults, Songs of Experience does not indicate to me a band that doesn't care about the music anymore.  If anything, they tried too hard and tinkered too much.  I think their hearts are absolutely still in it. 

Plenty of bands have a golden period and then regress to making lesser-quality work.  I'm actually surprised how good their recent material and recent live performances are given it's been over 40 years since they started.  They also had a much longer golden period than most bands.  Their golden period lasted longer than a hell of a lot of bands' entire careers. 

Of course they're not going to look back and think, "Songs of Innocence/Experience was our peak."  They've peaked.  Of course they have, they're in their 60s and have already recorded The Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby.  Most bands have well and truely lost whatever they once had by this point.  I don't think U2 have.  No, SOE is not anywhere close to as good as their best albums, but I don't think many bands release songs as good as Red Flag Day and Little Things 40 years into their careers.  I don't think many bands deliver live performances as good as they still can this late into their careers either.  I'm just happy to get more of both.
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an tha

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2020, 01:48:29 PM »
Admitting that they couldn't let go and call it a day because they were hooked on the money/the fame?

Maybe evem admitting that their hearts were no longer really in it, but contracts and the business of u2 meant they kept going?

Maybe comparing themselves to bands like REM who went out whilst still had their dignity and wishing had done same?

I don't think they're just in it for the money/fame.  For all its faults, Songs of Experience does not indicate to me a band that doesn't care about the music anymore.  If anything, they tried too hard and tinkered too much.  I think their hearts are absolutely still in it. 

Plenty of bands have a golden period and then regress to making lesser-quality work.  I'm actually surprised how good their recent material and recent live performances are given it's been over 40 years since they started.  They also had a much longer golden period than most bands.  Their golden period lasted longer than a hell of a lot of bands' entire careers. 

Of course they're not going to look back and think, "Songs of Innocence/Experience was our peak."  They've peaked.  Of course they have, they're in their 60s and have already recorded The Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby.  Most bands have well and truely lost whatever they once had by this point.  I don't think U2 have.  No, SOE is not anywhere close to as good as their best albums, but I don't think many bands release songs as good as Red Flag Day and Little Things 40 years into their careers.  I don't think many bands deliver live performances as good as they still can this late into their careers either.  I'm just happy to get more of both.

All about personal opinions and that is what makes chatting on here fun and interesting.

I disagree with you hugely about the recent work - but i agree with some of your points about golden period etc and i respect the care and thought you put in to express them.

I do think they tried hard on last record and have quoted a good review on here before that talks about that and how in failing when trying so hard it is all the more dispiriting....

I strongly disagree about the quality of the recent work though, it is to me unlistenable and has virtually no redeeming features, but that is of course just my view.

I do think that the revisionist in Bono or Larry will call this period out and not fondly, we'll see!

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2020, 01:55:04 PM »
The Dirty Day video is bad, no doubt. But it hasn't all been that bad...the 2018 E+I tour was quite fun still...

I mean, they can still rock Vertigo with a lot of help.
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Magnificence

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2020, 02:42:00 PM »
a compelling case of their late work is made with red flag day and little things

however one thing i would like to hold them into account for, the "representation" of their recent work by choosing songs (singles) that were just awful

when you have really good stuff like red flag day, little things, or even book of your heart, but your single choices are best thing, american soul, and some other dreadful song with a title that is too damn long and repetitive to type....   ::)

however

it's worth noting, a pink elephant still casts a gray shadow

and the ghost of a pink elephant doesn't even know he/she's pink

So does (s)he cast any shadow whatsoever?

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WookieeWarrior

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2020, 03:55:49 PM »
Larry will call out this period for what it is, but I think Bono has deluded himself into a Chris Martin subversion. He's too far gone at this point, and Edge is right there with him.

I have to wonder if Adam has any reservations. He's never been outspoken. Perhaps he's just happy to play the bass.

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restofit

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2020, 07:14:46 PM »
When u2 decide to call it quits do you think they will look back on this period now and then distance themselves from it, like for example they did with Pop?

I can see maybe a 75/80 year old Bono or more likely Larry after they have been finished for a few years looking back and maybe admitting they 'carried on for a bit too long' .....'found it too hard to stop even though they knew they should have'.....looking back on this period and feeling embarrassed by songs like 'The Best Thing'

Looking back at things like that performance of Dirty Day (that has been posted in another thread here) and cringing at how bad it was......regretting working with clowns like Ryan Tedder in some desperate attempt at relevance.

Admitting that they couldn't let go and call it a day because they were hooked on the money/the fame?

Maybe evem admitting that their hearts were no longer really in it, but contracts and the business of u2 meant they kept going?

Maybe comparing themselves to bands like REM who went out whilst still had their dignity and wishing had done same?

We've seen u2 distance themselves from their work before - could it happen here on a bigger scale once they are done - a lot of the truth tends to come out once things are done.


What do you reckon? Maybe they are now and will be in years to come genuinely proud of this period, and genuinely think it stands up, had been well received and was the right direction for them......

Maybe they'll even still be going in a similar direction in 15 years time and to a whole generation (well those who noticed anyway) this period will be what u2 are best known for?

Maybe even when it is done 'brand u2' would never allow them to

Maybe once done they'll shy away from interviews etc and hold a dignified silence leaving behind the body of work and no recriminations/regrets etc.

Thoughts?

An-tha, Even though I personally don't agree with the direction they've gone right now, I just want to address the misconception that the band aren't aware how foolish they appear to (us) by unashamedly chasing radio hits. I think they know it's perceivingly 'uncool' what they are doing - but that's the point in their minds. At least for Bono and The Edge.

So yeah, I think the band is far more self-aware than most realize. The things is they are making the music they want to make and they are aware that they look like fools in doing so.

I remember a quote from the Edge along the lines of 'even though that's what people hate about U2 the most, we have to go down that route - because that's where the potency comes from in our music!' or something like that..

Here's a quote from Bono that helps you understand their line of thinking/mindset currently:

"My favorite thing in the world is the connection music makes. It has to be natural and honest. Singles do not just happen because you hit all the right notes. Hundreds of other artists and producers are paid to get a number one record at the same time us. If it happened, it would be because it was true to who we are and should be proof enough that you cannot buy hit songs. Next 35 songs I write are meant to be singles because a perfect song is the most important thing in the world to me. They are not defined by structure or length. It is the most difficult thing you can ever do and I love every bit of it."

Again, I don't agree with the direction they've gone at all, but this at least this line of reasoning makes what they are doing somewhat easier to get your head around and kind of understand where they are coming from (Re: their/Bono's mindset at the moment).
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 07:32:59 PM by restofit »

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an tha

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2020, 09:30:21 PM »
When u2 decide to call it quits do you think they will look back on this period now and then distance themselves from it, like for example they did with Pop?

I can see maybe a 75/80 year old Bono or more likely Larry after they have been finished for a few years looking back and maybe admitting they 'carried on for a bit too long' .....'found it too hard to stop even though they knew they should have'.....looking back on this period and feeling embarrassed by songs like 'The Best Thing'

Looking back at things like that performance of Dirty Day (that has been posted in another thread here) and cringing at how bad it was......regretting working with clowns like Ryan Tedder in some desperate attempt at relevance.

Admitting that they couldn't let go and call it a day because they were hooked on the money/the fame?

Maybe evem admitting that their hearts were no longer really in it, but contracts and the business of u2 meant they kept going?

Maybe comparing themselves to bands like REM who went out whilst still had their dignity and wishing had done same?

We've seen u2 distance themselves from their work before - could it happen here on a bigger scale once they are done - a lot of the truth tends to come out once things are done.


What do you reckon? Maybe they are now and will be in years to come genuinely proud of this period, and genuinely think it stands up, had been well received and was the right direction for them......

Maybe they'll even still be going in a similar direction in 15 years time and to a whole generation (well those who noticed anyway) this period will be what u2 are best known for?

Maybe even when it is done 'brand u2' would never allow them to

Maybe once done they'll shy away from interviews etc and hold a dignified silence leaving behind the body of work and no recriminations/regrets etc.

Thoughts?

An-tha, Even though I personally don't agree with the direction they've gone right now, I just want to address the misconception that the band aren't aware how foolish they appear to (us) by unashamedly chasing radio hits. I think they know it's perceivingly 'uncool' what they are doing - but that's the point in their minds. At least for Bono and The Edge.

So yeah, I think the band is far more self-aware than most realize. The things is they are making the music they want to make and they are aware that they look like fools in doing so.

I remember a quote from the Edge along the lines of 'even though that's what people hate about U2 the most, we have to go down that route - because that's where the potency comes from in our music!' or something like that..

Here's a quote from Bono that helps you understand their line of thinking/mindset currently:

"My favorite thing in the world is the connection music makes. It has to be natural and honest. Singles do not just happen because you hit all the right notes. Hundreds of other artists and producers are paid to get a number one record at the same time us. If it happened, it would be because it was true to who we are and should be proof enough that you cannot buy hit songs. Next 35 songs I write are meant to be singles because a perfect song is the most important thing in the world to me. They are not defined by structure or length. It is the most difficult thing you can ever do and I love every bit of it."

Again, I don't agree with the direction they've gone at all, but this at least this line of reasoning makes what they are doing somewhat easier to get your head around and kind of understand where they are coming from (Re: their/Bono's mindset at the moment).

Interesting.

Really interesting.

The question is why, what happened to them to take this mindset and to so dogmatically stick to it?!?

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restofit

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2020, 10:25:03 PM »
When u2 decide to call it quits do you think they will look back on this period now and then distance themselves from it, like for example they did with Pop?

I can see maybe a 75/80 year old Bono or more likely Larry after they have been finished for a few years looking back and maybe admitting they 'carried on for a bit too long' .....'found it too hard to stop even though they knew they should have'.....looking back on this period and feeling embarrassed by songs like 'The Best Thing'

Looking back at things like that performance of Dirty Day (that has been posted in another thread here) and cringing at how bad it was......regretting working with clowns like Ryan Tedder in some desperate attempt at relevance.

Admitting that they couldn't let go and call it a day because they were hooked on the money/the fame?

Maybe evem admitting that their hearts were no longer really in it, but contracts and the business of u2 meant they kept going?

Maybe comparing themselves to bands like REM who went out whilst still had their dignity and wishing had done same?

We've seen u2 distance themselves from their work before - could it happen here on a bigger scale once they are done - a lot of the truth tends to come out once things are done.


What do you reckon? Maybe they are now and will be in years to come genuinely proud of this period, and genuinely think it stands up, had been well received and was the right direction for them......

Maybe they'll even still be going in a similar direction in 15 years time and to a whole generation (well those who noticed anyway) this period will be what u2 are best known for?

Maybe even when it is done 'brand u2' would never allow them to

Maybe once done they'll shy away from interviews etc and hold a dignified silence leaving behind the body of work and no recriminations/regrets etc.

Thoughts?

An-tha, Even though I personally don't agree with the direction they've gone right now, I just want to address the misconception that the band aren't aware how foolish they appear to (us) by unashamedly chasing radio hits. I think they know it's perceivingly 'uncool' what they are doing - but that's the point in their minds. At least for Bono and The Edge.

So yeah, I think the band is far more self-aware than most realize. The things is they are making the music they want to make and they are aware that they look like fools in doing so.

I remember a quote from the Edge along the lines of 'even though that's what people hate about U2 the most, we have to go down that route - because that's where the potency comes from in our music!' or something like that..

Here's a quote from Bono that helps you understand their line of thinking/mindset currently:

"My favorite thing in the world is the connection music makes. It has to be natural and honest. Singles do not just happen because you hit all the right notes. Hundreds of other artists and producers are paid to get a number one record at the same time us. If it happened, it would be because it was true to who we are and should be proof enough that you cannot buy hit songs. Next 35 songs I write are meant to be singles because a perfect song is the most important thing in the world to me. They are not defined by structure or length. It is the most difficult thing you can ever do and I love every bit of it."

Again, I don't agree with the direction they've gone at all, but this at least this line of reasoning makes what they are doing somewhat easier to get your head around and kind of understand where they are coming from (Re: their/Bono's mindset at the moment).

Interesting.

Really interesting.

The question is why, what happened to them to take this mindset and to so dogmatically stick to it?!?

Not the chart-chasing obsession, but U2's emphasis on songwriting craft > sonics was triggered by Rick Rubin.

You can blame him for that one.

From Wikipedia:

"The band also took to heart advice that Rubin had given them during recording sessions with him in 2006. Rubin pointed out that the group used unique sounds and arrangements to "disguise the fact that you don't have a song", and he stressed the importance of songcraft and writing music that could play well even when stripped down to vocals and piano."
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 10:28:46 PM by restofit »

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MPare1966

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2020, 10:34:02 PM »
When u2 decide to call it quits do you think they will look back on this period now and then distance themselves from it, like for example they did with Pop?

I can see maybe a 75/80 year old Bono or more likely Larry after they have been finished for a few years looking back and maybe admitting they 'carried on for a bit too long' .....'found it too hard to stop even though they knew they should have'.....looking back on this period and feeling embarrassed by songs like 'The Best Thing'

Looking back at things like that performance of Dirty Day (that has been posted in another thread here) and cringing at how bad it was......regretting working with clowns like Ryan Tedder in some desperate attempt at relevance.

Admitting that they couldn't let go and call it a day because they were hooked on the money/the fame?

Maybe evem admitting that their hearts were no longer really in it, but contracts and the business of u2 meant they kept going?

Maybe comparing themselves to bands like REM who went out whilst still had their dignity and wishing had done same?

We've seen u2 distance themselves from their work before - could it happen here on a bigger scale once they are done - a lot of the truth tends to come out once things are done.


What do you reckon? Maybe they are now and will be in years to come genuinely proud of this period, and genuinely think it stands up, had been well received and was the right direction for them......

Maybe they'll even still be going in a similar direction in 15 years time and to a whole generation (well those who noticed anyway) this period will be what u2 are best known for?

Maybe even when it is done 'brand u2' would never allow them to

Maybe once done they'll shy away from interviews etc and hold a dignified silence leaving behind the body of work and no recriminations/regrets etc.

Thoughts?

An-tha, Even though I personally don't agree with the direction they've gone right now, I just want to address the misconception that the band aren't aware how foolish they appear to (us) by unashamedly chasing radio hits. I think they know it's perceivingly 'uncool' what they are doing - but that's the point in their minds. At least for Bono and The Edge.

So yeah, I think the band is far more self-aware than most realize. The things is they are making the music they want to make and they are aware that they look like fools in doing so.

I remember a quote from the Edge along the lines of 'even though that's what people hate about U2 the most, we have to go down that route - because that's where the potency comes from in our music!' or something like that..

Here's a quote from Bono that helps you understand their line of thinking/mindset currently:

"My favorite thing in the world is the connection music makes. It has to be natural and honest. Singles do not just happen because you hit all the right notes. Hundreds of other artists and producers are paid to get a number one record at the same time us. If it happened, it would be because it was true to who we are and should be proof enough that you cannot buy hit songs. Next 35 songs I write are meant to be singles because a perfect song is the most important thing in the world to me. They are not defined by structure or length. It is the most difficult thing you can ever do and I love every bit of it."

Again, I don't agree with the direction they've gone at all, but this at least this line of reasoning makes what they are doing somewhat easier to get your head around and kind of understand where they are coming from (Re: their/Bono's mindset at the moment).

Interesting.

Really interesting.

The question is why, what happened to them to take this mindset and to so dogmatically stick to it?!?

Not the chart-chasing obsession, but U2's emphasis on songwriting craft > sonics was triggered by Rick Rubin.

You can blame him for that one.

From Wikipedia:

"The band also took to heart advice that Rubin had given them during recording sessions with him in 2006. Rubin pointed out that the group used unique sounds and arrangements to "disguise the fact that you don't have a song", and he stressed the importance of songcraft and writing music that could play well even when stripped down to vocals and piano."

Hence, Every Breaking Wave.

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MPare1966

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2020, 10:48:01 PM »
A comment I picked up on twitter, re the whole legacy thing

one thing about U2... a small number of bands have one album as good as JT or AB, and a smaller number have two that good, and only a tiny number have two that are that good and *sound so different.* OK Computer/Kid A is the only comparison of past 40 years.

I think they’re safe. Late career so-so material won’t matter much at the end of it all.
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Aviastar

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Re: When it is over.....
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2020, 11:37:04 PM »
A comment I picked up on twitter, re the whole legacy thing

one thing about U2... a small number of bands have one album as good as JT or AB, and a smaller number have two that good, and only a tiny number have two that are that good and *sound so different.* OK Computer/Kid A is the only comparison of past 40 years.

I think they’re safe. Late career so-so material won’t matter much at the end of it all.

So long as they don't sell their best work to NASCAR commercials and the like...

Hold on, people! The man's talking about waste management. That affects the whole damn planet.